Looks like Obama wants everyone to have SFUSD-like schools - The Wall: San Francisco Politics, Policy, & Government - Discussion Areas - The Wall - Message Board - Yuku

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Looks like Obama wants everyone to have SFUSD-like schools

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SFModerate	Looks like Obama wants everyone to have SFUSD-like schools	Lead	[-]
Ward Heeler Posts: 897 (09/23/08 5:21 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Fink	Tags : sfusd, education, obama, radicalism Maybe that's why he's so popular here in San Francisco. Less education, more political action. Very similar to what we're seeing with SFUSD school kids attending rallies and not classes. Obama and Ayers Pushed Radicalism On Schools "From 1995 to 1999, he led an education foundation called the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC), and remained on the board until 2001. The group poured more than $100 million into the hands of community organizers and radical education activists." "Instead of funding schools directly, it required schools to affiliate with "external partners," which actually got the money. Proposals from groups focused on math/science achievement were turned down." "External partners like the South Shore African Village Collaborative and the Dual Language Exchange focused more on political consciousness, Afrocentricity and bilingualism than traditional education. CAC's in-house evaluators comprehensively studied the effects of its grants on the test scores of Chicago public-school students. They found no evidence of educational improvement."
Chrysippus	Honorable	#1	[-]
Ward Heeler Posts: 4342 (09/23/08 10:06 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Fink	The article in question tries to put CAC and Obama's participation in a bad light. However, I think both come out looking pretty good. The author, despite considerable poking, was not able to find anything of an illegal nature. Instead, the author objects to the focus and purpose of CAC. The author is entitled to that presupposition. However, I give credit to educational efforts that encourage people to learn more than one language, to connect the educational with the personal, and to get involved with community well-being. Granted, a problem arises when there is a neglect of basic skills, as is the case with SF schools. However, CAC does not seem to denigrate basic skills but provide support for additional interests. Obama's involvement with CAC has increased my respect for him.
Marcel Deste	Response to Chryssipus	#2	[-]
Ward Heeler Posts: 3857 (09/23/08 1:05 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Fink	Chryssipus, what William Ayers is doing and has been doing in Chicago has been indoctrination and conversion to communism, generations of kids. At the expense of their education. All it would take for your opinion of what has been going down in Chicago to swivel 180 degrees would be for kids to be getting indoctrination against some value you hold. lets say instead of math they get homophobic content and how homosexuality is bad. Still for the Ayers Alynski mnethodology for leaving education aside and instead inculcating certain and only certain political values? The point is schools are not supposed to be doing anything but teaching HOW to think, as opposed to what to think. In Chicago, in fact throughout the entire public school system with the possible exception of some red state districts (i repeat "possible") virtually any place covered by the NEA and teachers unions have been inculcating socialism as the way of the future. Its why students here were taken to hear Cindy Sheehan speak at a rally and the other pro American Gold Star parents prevented from that same event. This is what Barak Obama will absolutely bring into public school education for the simple reason that that is what all Alynski graduates are indoctrinated to do. Its WHY Obama is the current candidate. Its why george Soros is putting so much money into the democrat party campaign. Its why ACORN (Obamas real alumni) is committing rampant vote fraud. And if president Obama nominates William Ayers to be his cabinet minister for education will not every news paper castigate the Republicans for meanness and trying to prevent good education? Look at the other thread on the replacement of JROTC in SF schools with literally a course on socialism including "racism". Hitler did it. Lenin did it. The Communist Party platform of 1952 said it was their goal. get into the schools and change what kids there think about America.
SFModerate		#3	[-]
Ward Heeler Posts: 897 (09/23/08 3:15 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Fink	Chrysippus wrote: Granted, a problem arises when there is a neglect of basic skills, as is the case with SF schools. However, CAC does not seem to denigrate basic skills but provide support for additional interests. CP, I appreciate your evenhandedness in these discussions, but the article did specifically state that they denied funding to help basic skills and that all the programs they funded (to the tune of $110 Million) did not improve anything. It's the recipe that we see today from the SFUSD BOE. Bunch of political hacks using the Board as a springboard for higher political office -- and screw the kids.
Chrysippus	Teaching vs. Dogmatizing	#4	[-]
Ward Heeler Posts: 4342 (09/23/08 3:19 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Fink	Marcel, I agree with you that schools should teach people to think for themselves, not indoctrinate. However, I don't buy your claim that CAC has been indoctrinating as opposed to teaching. Encouraging kids to get involved with community issues and to understand people from different cultural backgrounds is not indoctrination. Likewise, encouraging kids to understand how class differences affect the formation of public policy is not indoctrination. These are all realities of life that everyone should have some understanding of. Indoctrination happens if the teachers try to push certain solutions to problems. Such pushing goes over the edge. But identifying problems and thinking about them creatively are good things.
Marcel Deste	Response to the right and honorable Chryssipus	#5	[-]
Ward Heeler Posts: 3857 (09/24/08 7:38 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Fink	Chryssipus said: Encouraging kids to get involved with community issues and to understand people from different cultural backgrounds is not indoctrination. That certainly depends. Which community issues? What to understand? And is the instruction implying that other cultures are superior to yours.Multiculturalism has paralyzed all of Europe. It has also led to the confusion that European peoples are now exhibiting about their own culture to the extent that British courts are allowing Sharia law to rule in what are now their "no go" zones filled with muslims. there can be devastating consequences to a civilization. Is that "respect for other cultures"? And the term "community issues" is a buzz word for socialism, social engineering and State control not excluding redistribution of wealth. Supression of individual rights is part and parcel to "commnunity". William Ayers hates America. the programs he imposes on schools is right out of the marxist manual. This can not be minimized and obscurred with your personal favorable inclinations towards "community" issues. One other thing on this. We know we have kids who cant read write or spell or add subtract multiply divide or get to the next levelk of education. So where does the idea that we FIRST need to instruct kids on "community issues" before they can critically deduce subject. there can only be one reason. Inject the ideologic incluinations BEFORE they have the capacity to see through indoctrination. Any school curriculum that delves into "racism" for 5 year olds is by its very nature indoctrination. Chryssipus said: Likewise, encouraging kids to understand how class differences affect the formation of public policy is not indoctrination. These are all realities of life that everyone should have some understanding of. So are the students in William Ayers schools now getting a lecture and powerpoint on the mortgage meltdown caused by the Community Reinvestment Act? Of COURSE not. That would be to instruct these kids on the ultimate futility of allowing the State to hand out mnoney and transfer wealth by fiat. Its been 50 years since the Great Society programs started to spend the 4 trillion dollars they have. Not a single problem targeted by that monstrosity has been dented let alone solved. So wheres the TRUTH in these curriculums. There arent any. This is why Ayers entire approach to "education" should be eliminated immediately and such nonsense cultural and race courses scrapped and replaced with functional education like reading and writing and math. So your last statement is simply bassackward. "Reality" is that none of the things Ayers indoctrination teaches is either accurate or real. His is all socialistic propaganda not the realities of life. The intent is to indoctrinate not educate. The record shows that Ayers group rebuffed attempts to include basic education skills. How do you explain that? Chryssipus said: Indoctrination happens if the teachers try to push certain solutions to problems. Such pushing goes over the edge. Like government as the solution? The racism of our Constitution has to be replaced by the living document they get to impose? thats Ayers. Chryssipus said: But identifying problems and thinking about them creatively are good things. That of course depends on what is perceived to be a problem. The "indigeneous racist nature" of our country is the problem as far as Ayers view goes.Unequal distribution of wealth is a problem. Unequal distribution of all sorts of things is a probelm in Ayers world. So rathert than teaching kids how to figure things out with their own trained deductive reasoning they instruct them as 5-6-7 year olds to make sure they see cherry picked "problems" the way the socialists think they should. The record is clear. Thats what they do. Something else is becoming clear. That Obama has been lying about his relationship with Ayers which is now becoming more focused on his time at Columbia (which Obama has refused to discuss and the Media hot on the trail of Todd Palins 30 year old DUI ticket refuse to delve into) as opposed to him being "a guy in the neighborhood" who "I never talk to". The idea that the Supervisors here would eliminate ROTC and then replace it with socialist indoctrination reveals this as an indigenmeous mindset.
Chrysippus	Basic Skills Are Not Enough	#6	[-]
Ward Heeler Posts: 4342 (09/25/08 4:19 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Fink	Marcel, Thanks for thoughtful post above. You raise some important issues. Here are some thoughts - You say: "Which community issues? What to understand? And is the instruction implying that other cultures are superior to yours. Multiculturalism has paralyzed all of Europe." People can learn about other cultures without abandoning their own standards. You're right that a brand of multiculturalism that says every culture is valid and cannot be judged is extreme. But so is the narrow attitude that refuses to examine other ways of living with an open mind. The key here is rational value-formation. We need to have values, and adhere to them, in order to live correctly. At the same time, the willingness to critique our own values and to be informed of the values of other cultures enriches the formation of values. The process of doing so is a positive brand of multiculturialism. It is part of what it means to be an intelligent and moral person. You say: "the term 'community issues' is a buzz word for socialism, social engineering and State control not excluding redistribution of wealth. Supression of individual rights is part and parcel to 'commnunity'." I disagree. In my neighborhood, "community issues" involve bringing some control to abusive public alcoholics. Is such control social engineering? Also, individual rights and community always exist side by side. Both are necessary for a well ordered society. You say: "William Ayers hates America. the programs he imposes on schools is right out of the marxist manual." I'm not convinced of that. In my youth, I knew several people who were involved in the Weather Underground, as was William Ayers. They were misguided, and they caused suffering to innocent people, but they did not hate America. They saw themselves as trying to save America from a rotten and repressive government. You say: "Any school curriculum that delves into 'racism' for 5 year olds is by its very nature indoctrination." The question is how the delving is done. Any delving whose goal is to stifle children's ability to think critically has no place in the schools. On the other hand, a delving that brings new information to children about the realities of life and encourages them to reach their own conclusions is a good thing, in my book. You say: "… Ayers entire approach to 'education' should be eliminated immediately and such nonsense cultural and race courses scrapped and replaced with functional education like reading and writing and math …" We disagree on this point. Granted, early education should promote basic skills as the foundation of all learning. But there's also a place in pre-college education for sociology, political science, and even philosophy. I, for one, regard it as a scandal that high schools almost never offer any courses in philosophy. Students graduate from high school and know absolutely nothing about how to evaluate conceptual arguments in a logical and systematic way. Even though philosophy is not a basic skill, every adult should have some acquaintance with it. Likewise for sociology and political science. Basic skills are not enough. You say: "The record shows that Ayers group rebuffed attempts to include basic education skills. How do you explain that?" The record shows that Ayers has created a foundation that promotes the learning of things besides basic skills. Nothing wrong with that. You say: "Obama has been lying about his relationship with Ayers" Maybe. The media should scrutinize this question.

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